tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6145686535514494437.post1417844477081212300..comments2023-12-14T14:59:13.175+01:00Comments on Shadows in Eden: The Words of JesusHawkwoodhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07993700120131916459noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6145686535514494437.post-15325516468600523752015-12-09T13:59:41.717+01:002015-12-09T13:59:41.717+01:00Thank you for your comment, entonces27. I can assu...Thank you for your comment, entonces27. I can assure you that 'the horizon of my mind' is wide enough to encompass possibilities not accessible to those who are bound by their faith to filter opinions through the specific faith which they hold. This means that I am not so much ‘against’ any particular faith (I am not), but ‘for’ an assessment that could be supported by an impartial scholarship. If, as you say, the “words of Jesus the Christ are not that seriously obeyed by any person on earth” then why does Christianity even exist? The inevitable answer is that millions do seriously obey his words.<br /><br />My point which I make in this particular post is that the actual words claimed for Jesus in scripture are hearsay, and were at the very earliest recorded several decades after the Ascension. What you do not mention is an example where no one else was present, such as the episode of Jesus’ exchange in the wilderness with Satan. If no one else was present (and they were not) how can we possibly know what was said? Given that one of the participants was supernatural, and the dialogue could well have been an internal one, is there not, even for yourself, the remotest chance that this dialogue was an invented fiction written to make a theological point?<br /><br />“The carnal me”, as you describe it, is a rationalizing mind, and by no means always doubtful. But there are indications that the unknown author of John’s gospel disapproved of the texts attributed to Thomas ‘the twin’, and sought to ridicule him in this passage, which itself could therefore be an entirely fictional incident. We have no confirmations for these things, and no specific historicity beyond the scriptures themselves. What we are left with is faith, and it is through faith that we often accept what common sense and rational thought would in another context have us question.Hawkwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07993700120131916459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6145686535514494437.post-10697601625355875052015-12-07T12:46:05.666+01:002015-12-07T12:46:05.666+01:00So how do we know about this incident, and what Je...So how do we know about this incident, and what Jesus said to this man? <br /><br />The Bible does not contradict itself; you only have to widen the horizon of your mind.<br /><br /><br />Did the cured leper ignore Jesus’ wish and spread the news of what had transpired, and who had cured him? <br /><br />For a priceless miracle perhaps, that man forgot and told people about the situation.<br /><br />If there were other witnesses present who overheard Jesus’ words (and therefore were in a position to record and preserve them) then the words themselves were already public, making Jesus’ statement redundant. <br /><br />Just to confirm that human beings primarily are weak in terms of secrecy. It means that words of Jesus the Christ are not that seriously obeyed by any person on earth.<br /><br />Either option demonstrates the uncertainty of the exchange, even its very unreliability.<br /><br />There are things spiritually contained and therefore the carnal you is always doubtful. Even Thomas in the Bible was at first doubtful but confirmed that Jesus the Christ is God.<br /><br />You might find the blog of 2009 Most Educational to Follow by Mashable as worth reading. or perhaps controversyextraordinary Biblical topics. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6145686535514494437.post-7281854427027977982014-11-16T22:51:48.416+01:002014-11-16T22:51:48.416+01:00Thank you for your comment on this subject, Steve....Thank you for your comment on this subject, Steve. I'm afraid, though, that you already seem to have misunderstood the focus of my post in your first statement: "Do you believe what Jesus said to be the truth or do you believe the interpretations of others?"<br /><br />But my post is not about whether what Jesus said is the truth or not, or even about how others have interpreted that alleged truth. It is about the extent to which we can rely on the words in scripture which are claimed to be the actual words spoken by Jesus. Since these words were often-enough said in circumstances which would have made their recording and preservation impracticable if not actually impossible (I cite the example of Jesus' temptation in the wilderness), and since they are at times actually contradictory between the gospels (I cite the last words on the cross), and because there is no independent corroboration for these words outside the gospels, whether we accept these words as Jesus' actual spoken words falls outside of 'proof' and squarely within the province of personal belief.<br /><br />On your own blog you employ a parallel (in 'Historical Facts by Faith') that, since there were no living eye witnesses to the deeds of Hannibal of Carthage we, as much as the events in scripture, must also accept these deeds 'by faith'. But this is a very different situation from the gospels, because we have ample corroboration from Roman records and Roman and Greek historians (Plutarch, Livy, Polybius) to be able to accept Hannibal's achievements, not on faith, but as part of the historical record.<br /><br />In the same post you also mention the walls of Jericho 'falling down' because of obedience to God. As you will read in my own post here ('Joshua, Jericho, the Trumpets and the Wall'), obedience to God had rather less to do with the walls crumbling than previous conquests which razed the walls long before Joshua was supposed to have arrived there, as the archaeological record on the ground confirms.<br /><br />Peace of heart, and thank you again for your comment.Hawkwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07993700120131916459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6145686535514494437.post-27909384845857082582014-11-16T17:54:11.930+01:002014-11-16T17:54:11.930+01:00WHEN JESUS SPOKE? BY STEVE FINNELL
Do you believ...WHEN JESUS SPOKE? BY STEVE FINNELL<br /><br />Do you believe what Jesus said to be the truth or do you believe the interpretations of others?<br /><br />Mark 16:16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.<br /><br />Jesus said "Has been baptized shall be saved."<br /><br />Many interpreters have said that Jesus meant that they had been saved the minute they believed and that they should be baptized later, as a testimony of their faith. <br /><br />Should you trust your eyes when you see what Jesus said?<br />Should you trust your ears and eyes when hear interpreters and preachers teach something Jesus did not say?<br /><br />When Jesus was alive He forgave sins of whom ever He wished to prove that He had authority to forgive sin.(Matthew 9:6)<br /><br />Matthew 9:2 And they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed.Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son;your sins are forgiven."<br /><br />Were the paralytics' sins forgiven the very minute his friends had faith? No, they had faith before they brought the paralytic before Jesus, yet he was still in his sins. The paralytic did not have sins forgiven until Jesus made the proclamation, "Your sins are forgiven."<br /><br />Jesus has made a proclamation for us, "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved." Jesus never said, "He who has faith only will be saved."<br /><br />JESUS NOR THE APOSTLE DID NOT STATE THAT MEN SHOULD BE IMMERSED IN WATER BECAUSE THEIR SINS HAVE ALREADY BEEN FORGIVEN.<br /><br />Under the New Covenant sins are always forgiven because of faith and baptism.<br /><br />(Scripture from: NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE) <br /><br /><br />YOU ARE INVITED TO FOLLOW MY BLOG. http://steve-finnell.blogspot.com <br />Steve Finnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12863026367048527526noreply@blogger.com